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Stories about hope and ways to share hope

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Trevor Kleinhans

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“A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing. Yes, I have made mistakes and lots of them. I think it’s from those mistakes that we grow and learn. Hi, I’m Trevor Kleinhans and I’m the author of a book titled Secrets Make You Sick and I Share Hope.” – Trevor Kleinhans

Author Trevor Kleinhans is an experienced public speaker and has been featured at the world-renowned Pecha Kucha event, Aegus Student Accommodation, SABC’s Morning Live show and universities and colleges around South Africa.

Trevor’s refreshingly honest approach to his real life experience allows him to dive deep in to areas of Emotional & Childhood Sexual Abuse, Crack Cocaine Addiction, HIV, Same Sex Prejudice and much more.



48 Trevor Kleinhans – Secrets make you sick – #isharehope

“A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing. Yes, I have made mistakes and lots of them. I think it’s from those mistakes that we grow and learn. Hi, I’m Trevor Kleinhans and I’m the author of a book titled Secrets Make You Sick and I Share Hope.” – Trevor Kleinhans

Intro:

Welcome to I Share Hope! The podcast where world leaders share their real stories of hope and how you can use actionable hope to start changing your life today and now here’s your host, Chris Williams.

Chris Williams:

Trevor Kleinhans, thank you for your time. You are an amazing speaker, you are a writer, you have a book that’s talking about real life things and you’ve dealt with a lot of things in your past from abuse to addiction to just being public about your sexual orientation and living in a part of the world that hasn’t always embraced a lot of the struggles that you’ve had in life and yet you’ve come out super strong as a human. Physically and emotionally, you are a passionate person, you live well and I’m thrilled to talk to you because you are a guy who’s just exuding hope. Just even the first couple of minutes of our conversation today has been – I’m smiling just listening to you going on and on and so, man thanks for your time.

What are you doing today? What’s going on in your world? You’re in South Africa and are you surfing every day or what?

Trevor Kleinhans:

I have never done the surfing thing actually, but I’m fortunate enough to work from home and I absolutely adore my two little Jack Russell’s that I have. They’re around me and are spoiled rotten and I take them for walks and whatever. They’re sleeping next to me at the moment, both of them. They’re both special, but the one in particular is very special because she is – which I will get to later in one of your questions. She sort of was a turning point in me getting to my senses when I was deep in addiction.

Chris Williams:

Wow.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Yes. So, I’m fortunate to work from home and a lovely part of the country, South Africa, and climate is great and life is good.

Chris Williams:

How do you get to work from home? Not many people get to do that. How do you get to do that?

Trevor Kleinhans:

I was in a corporate world up until two years ago and when I published my book… You know, when you work and you’re sort of not really waking up wanting to really drive to work and I was managing director of a large company here in South Africa – I just wasn’t happy. I’ve been doing the same work for 20 years and I’d written a book, published it and I was out there and I just suddenly thought, you know what, I want to follow my passion. I want to educate people. It’s something you can do from home. I can make my appointments and here and there spend a few days away from home, but generally speaking I’m here most of the time.

Chris Williams:

Man that’s great. That’s good for you. All right, just a review for people who are new listening or watching, question 1 of 5 is what is your definition of hope or your favorite quote about hope and how these five questions work is we’re asking 1000 world leaders of hope and you’re definitely in that group that are changing the culture and giving people hope. There are so many people who are not talking about their hopelessness and it has so much opportunity to grow and get out of that cycle and get back to life. Man, fire away that definition or your favorite quote about hope.

Question 1: What your definition of hope or your favorite quote about hope?

Trevor Kleinhans:

My quote is written on the first page of my book actually. It’s a George Bernard Shaw quote. It goes like – I’m going to read it otherwise I will mess it up, “A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing”. I think it’s testimony to my life in particular because yes I have made mistakes and lots of them. I think it’s from those mistakes that we grow and learn and you expand yourself. I think if you’re one of those that doesn’t take chances and doesn’t go for taking certain risks at certain times in your life, you stagnate.

So from my side, yes, I’ve done some things that, you know,I have no regret. I’ve done some things that I perhaps would do differently if I had the chance over again. But, I certainly have learned from my mistakes. What you also got to remember, is if you make the same mistake twice, it’s a choice.

Chris Williams:

You can’t call it a mistake anymore I guess.

Trevor Kleinhans:

No.

Chris Williams:

All right. Read that quote one more time or just recite it for us. It’s just beautiful.

Trevor Kleinhans:

“A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent in doing nothing.”

Chris Williams:

That’s awesome.

Trevor Kleinhans:

It really is quite something when you digest it. We all make mistakes. That’s one stage in our life and I suppose it’s just a matter of learning from those mistakes.

Chris Williams:

That is so true. Every movie or book we want to watch or read, it’s about the hero or heroine, whoever it is in the movie, they get real and there’s stuff that they do wrong and then they come back. Those are the good stories because, I guess, they relate to us because we know we’re all pretty real.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Yes.

Chris Williams:

Man that’s cool.

Question 2: Who has shared the most hope with you?

Trevor Kleinhans:

Who has shared the most hope?

Chris Williams:

Yes. Who has really brought hope to you in your life?

Trevor Kleinhans:

Okay. All right, I’ll tell you who has. The people, when I was at my very lowest point in my life which was around 10 or 11 years ago, when I was in the thick of my addiction with crack, cocaine, the people that stood by me and believed in me at that point gave me hope. Without those people, to mention my mother and my late father were there for me when I was at my lowest point. I had some incredibly, incredibly devoted friends that sometimes today I don’t understand how they did it, but they did. They stuck by me and they’re the ones that made me believe in myself again and gave me that hope.

You can be as strong as you like and believe in yourself, but if you don’t have people around you believing in you as well, it just makes it that much tougher.

Those people are the ones that I sit back today and I honestly salute them for being around me in a time when I really, really needed them.

Chris Williams:

They stuck with you during the hard time of coming not just during the addiction, but coming through that and that’s a pretty challenging process for anybody who’s not been around a chemical addiction and in particular, a really tough one like that. They spent – that is a lot of time.

Trevor Kleinhans:

I was told when I entered rehab in the end of 2004, when I walked through the doors into the rehabilitation center, I was told “you have a 3% chance of surviving this addiction”. You have absolutely no idea the feeling that that gave to me at that point because it was there and then that I had to make that decision of am I going to survive this or am I going to be a victim to it? If I’m going to survive it, it means I have to be one of those three people out of a hundred. You have to dig incredibly deep to convince yourself and believe in yourself that you will be one of those three people along with the people surrounding you believing in you as well. So, that was an extremely pivotal time in my life and I will never forget was, walking through those rehab doors and those counselors telling me that. They clearly tell you for a reason, to shock you!

But for many people, it’s a death drug or it’s a drug that we end up in prison. So, I’m still in recovery, I’ll never conquer it totally, but to get to where I am 11 years later after addiction, it’s been a process and it’s been a struggle in parts, it’s not been easy but I’ve never given up hope. I’ve never given that up in that sense because of all the people that I’m surrounded with.

Chris Williams:

Beautiful. Beautiful. I wish I could meet all the people who have given you hope. I’d love to just thank them because you’re here today to pass along.

Question 3: Take us back to a time or multiple times, whatever, just walk us back to some life stories where you’ve really needed hope and where hope seemed like it was something really out of reach?

Trevor Kleinhans:

I only started using recreational drugs at a very late age in my life which was at the age of 40. Up to that point, I hardly drank any alcohol, I was a real ‘teetotaler’ as such (goodie, goodie), I didn’t smoke, – I have never smoked cigarettes in my life and I was under immense pressure business wise as well. The company that I was with, I was unaware of it, but they were fraudulently acting and evading tax and that and all sorts of things and I was the director of one of the companies within the group. It was around this period when they arrested my superiors, my bosses that I felt my world was coming to an end because I had all these staff (employee’s). I had kept the secret of being sexually abused as a child for 35 years, I had kept my sexuality a secret for 29 years and I had filled what I call my emotional tank to its absolute peak. Then, I had this business disaster happening in my life and I was around the wrong people at the wrong time when somebody offered me an ecstasy pill which I swallowed.

I was able to escape my reality world and have a sort of world where I could enjoy myself and forget about all my worries in real life. For two years I was stuck in that world eventually progressing through to crack cocaine. Because of the lack of knowledge of what the drug was, I didn’t even know what crack cocaine was and my little dogs as I say, are my life, the one’s 15 now and the one’s 12 years old, Jessie and Jasper… They were still young then. I was single, so they were literally – everything, I gave them all my attention. Suddenly that stopped because I was holed up in a room all day, all night for binges day after day and obviously fed them, but the attention they got diminished from their side.

Then one day I opened my door, my bedroom door and I looked across and my little Jack Russell was lying, Jessie was lying on the couch. I looked at her and her ears were back and it was almost like she was telepathically talking to me. It sounds strange, but it was almost like she was sending me this message of what the hell are you doing? It just brought me out of this world of abuse and this deep, dark hole that I dug for myself. I ran over to her, I grabbed her and I just lay on the couch and I just sobbed for an hour holding her. The other one jumped up and was licking me. I just lay there, I was a wreck and I suddenly come to a realization that I was a drug addict, I was a crack, cocaine addict and there was no way I was getting out of it.

She was the one that gave me hope. My dogs mean everything to me. I’m an animal lover and there was no way I was going to sit back and go and they’re going to end up being taken away from me while I’m going to end up in jail and I’m not going to know what’s happening to them. So, that little dog saved my life. That little dog gave me the hope at the time. I hope I’ve answered your question.

Chris Williams:

That answered my question, yes. Wow. That’s sweet and special.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Yes.

Chris Williams:

Wow. Okay. We’ve had a few other people on the show talk about addiction and some who are still struggling with it, some who are out and when you’re going through that process, so kind of speak directly to somebody who’s still maybe in the thick of it like you were at that point in just there’s no way out for you then, what did you do? What are the simple steps that you started taking to move forward? How did you get help?

Trevor Kleinhans:

Straight after that, as I said, the minute I came to realization and I think every addict has to reach that point. Many of us and I’ve dealt with many addicts in this period since I have sort of written the book and I’ve been doing a lot of talks. I speak to them and if they are not ready for it, they haven’t processed at all themselves – they’re in denial about it basically and it’s almost difficult to help them. The person has to reach a point where they want the help for them to accept it. I think that’s where I got to. I was at a point where I had accepted that I was a crack cocaine addict because up to that point I had been in denial about it. I’ve tried to stop many times. I’ve flushed thousands and thousands of Rands (South African currency) worth of drugs down the toilet trying to say, “Right, I’m never going to touch it again” only to phone up the dealer a couple of hours later to be ordering more.

I think you’ve got to get to that point of acceptance, yourself and once you get into that, my next step was I got my family involved and I phoned my sister. In this stage, in this process and it was a two-year process, a two-year period I should say, obviously when you’re on drugs, you become negligent and invincible and I’d become sexually negligent so I contracted HIV in the process. I had that on top of it that I was dealing with and battling with. I had already started using drugs, but I’ve contracted HIV during the process and subconsciously, I had pressed suicide button in my mind and said, well you know what, if I’m going to go out, I’m going to go out with a bang…

You must remember back in 2003 when I was diagnosed with HIV, look there still is a stigma, but it was much greater then as well as people do ‘see it’ (as a death sentence), you see it as a death sentence. It’s starting to change because of the drugs (medication) that are around and the care and the antiretroviral drugs that treat you, but then it was very, very, very scary. I didn’t even take my antiretrovirals I was given. I just gave up and I just ended up going into full-on addiction. I got my family involved and they’re the ones that stood by me through the process. They arranged for me to get into the right rehab along with my close friends that I was talking about earlier. They arranged everything for me. I think that’s what you need to do when you get to that point in your life, if you are struggling with some form of addiction, talk to somebody that is close to you and you trust.

I always say that if you speak to someone and you’re humble, genuine and sincere when you speak to them, so seldom, if you use those three qualities and they come from you heart, so seldom will people turn their back on you. They will help you.

Chris Williams:

That’s great advice. It really is. Thank you for being so open.

Trevor Kleinhans:

I can perhaps share something that relates to this. I was managing director of a company that employed 500 employees at the time and when I went into rehab and I was also a minority shareholder. My colleagues told my bosses that I was in Australia because they were covering for me. They were kind enough to cover for me. I didn’t have to worry while I was in rehab because they have told me that, that’s what they had told them, so I said okay well I’ll deal with it when I get out. I got out of rehab after just spending just over two months there and I couldn’t live with myself knowing there was that secret hanging there and my bosses didn’t know. Number one, a gun could be held to my head at any stage, not that anyone would and there was this ‘uncomfortableness’ in me because I knew that wasn’t the truth.

So, I got on a plane because our head office is based on Johannesburg and we’re talking about a blue chip company in South Africa. I’m going to name them because I’m very proud of them and the way they handled it was magnificent – It’s called Imperial. I was in the warehousing logistics business which is a very masculine industry in this country and I flew up to Johannesburg, I called for a meeting. I think they thought I was going to resign and not knowing whether I was going to come back with a job. I sat in front of these, there was six of them directors, I said to them I need to tell you the truth. I said I have not been in Australia. I had been rehab because I’m a crack cocaine addict and I’m HIV positive and this is why and how I got here.

You know Chris, there were some tears running down these men’s eyes and the support I got totally astounded me. I honestly thought they would say here’s a drug addict, he’s running half a billion Rand turnover business for us, there’s no way we want him around us. They did the absolute opposite. They showed me support and I continued to work for them until I resigned two years ago for another 10 years. If you just use those three things, you’re sincere, you’re humble and you’re honest, it’s hard for people to not help you.

Chris Williams:

Sincere, humble and honest. Good advice. What a great company. I’m impressed with those guys.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Yes.

Chris Williams:

Impressed with your bravery too. I mean it’s super brave to step out and do that.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Yes it was scary.

Chris Williams:

All right man. So Trevor, you’ve come a long way and you have lots of things going for you. You’ve had a long line of lots of things going for you sounds like.

Question 4: How are you sharing hope today as a regular guy? What are you out there doing in the world that brings hope to somebody else?

Trevor Kleinhans:

Well obviously I wrote my book and I didn’t write my book to publish all my dirt and grime at all. I wrote my book while I was doing five years of psychological therapy after I came out of rehab. I sought professional help because of the childhood sexual abuse side of it because I was abused by my oldest brother who was 10 years my superior from the age of 6-12, so he was 16-22. When I got to 22 I looked at this and I thought this is wrong. All the guilt that one carries as a sexually abused person, which all sexually abused people are fully aware of, you are made to feel guilty about the abuse you’ve endured. All that guilt suddenly changed to rage and anger and hatred and all that because I thought, well I wouldn’t be doing this to a 12-year-old boy. I suddenly realized how wrong it was.

So I ended up getting help, professional help and I ended up in the five-year period that I was doing psychological therapy. My therapist said to me, you know what just purge all your information, your thoughts and ideas. Just write. It’s very therapeutic – which is what I did. I literally started from day dot, when I could remember almost drowning in a swimming pool at the age of four years old and I just wrote. I just put all the information and before I knew it I’d written a book with all my secrets. I mean it has my deep, dark secrets, which I had no intention on anyone but myself ever knowing about. People, friends of mine, I would tell them stories from the book and they would say, “please let us read it” and I would say, “no not in living hell. No ways”.

I got the book published, but as I say, published because my friends prompted me saying it would help people. It’s one way I know I am helping people because I receive countless messages from a lot of people that read and say, “It was like my life story I was reading” and I’m saying you know what, we all got stories. The only difference is I wrote mine and I’m sure if you had to write yours and I read it I’d be just as intrigued and interested.

That’s one way and another way is I now go around to schools, universities and colleges and I talk to the youth on subjects that I wish I had been spoken of about when I was at school or college. I inform them of the dangers of experimenting with substances. I inform them of the dangers of keeping secrets whether it’s sexual abuse or whatever the secret might be. The dangers of keeping those secrets inside you for so long because somewhere along the line it’s all going to blow up in your face and you’re not going to be prepared for it and then you end up substance abusing or suicidal or depression or anyone of those things. So from my side, it’s educating people on the dangers of keeping secrets and I’m starting to do that in the corporate world as well, you know, sort of trying that side of it. That’s how I’m hopefully helping people.

Chris Williams:

I wouldn’t have found you if you hadn’t been doing all that stuff. It’s working.

Trevor Kleinhans:

That’s good.

Chris Williams:

Question 5 is really practical.

Question 5: Give me steps, the how-to’s to start becoming a person of hope again or just start sharing hope. Either way you want to take that. What do I do next?

Trevor Kleinhans:

I suppose for me, as I say and I’ve mentioned this but I suppose the biggest thing for me, the biggest suggestion I can make is that if you share a secret…it doesn’t matter, I’ve even got in my website a section where you can post a secret anonymously. It’s amazing by when you do that, even if it is anonymously, you just know your secret is out there, it seems to lift some of the weight off your shoulders. One of the things I encourage is for people to – whether it is through just writing it down on a piece of paper and folding it up and shoving it away somewhere, write about it or find someone that you really, really, really can trust is the best. A really close friend or someone in your family and talk about whatever it is that you know is a deep dark secret, is from my side the best practical information I can give anyone because I think that starts the process of healing, the minute you start sharing.

I have a hashtag which is reveal to heal (#revealtoheal) and that is really true. Reveal to heal. The minute you start revealing yourself and your secrets you start healing yourself.

Chris Williams:

You’re right. You’re right. I remember the first time I told anybody about being abused, just to pull that one off the shelf used as a category and man, I felt scared to death that they’re going to tell the world and I felt freer that I have ever felt at the same time.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Absolutely.

Chris Williams:

It started a whole long line of telling a few more and you needed it in a safe way. Obviously, somebody who you can really trust, but you don’t want to be gossip, but wow powerful.

Trevor Kleinhans:

No, it really is and likewise from my side, you can imagine having written this and what’s inside. It was extremely liberating once the book…I had no idea how it would be received because it is quite graphic and it’s quite intense. It’s a very raw read because it was written while I was emotionally wrecked during my therapy. I didn’t even have much of it edited from that angle because it would have taken the brutal honesty away from the book. It is quite a tough read in some respects, however it’s extremely liberating because I have no secrets, I say that but I do have one more and I’m writing my second book at the moment called Secrets Make You Sick Too. It’s a secret I have kept from my psychologist and I’m not going to reveal it obviously, but I have kept it from her for seven years and she was shocked when I told her. Nothing illegal and nothing…but it will be extremely powerful when people read about it. It will help a lot more people.

Chris Williams:

That’s wonderful. I look forward to reading about it.

Trevor Kleinhans:

If I can I highlight, that shows you how – I didn’t even realize that I was holding that secret. It just shows you sometimes psychologically how deeply embedded our secrets are that we don’t realize that they’re there. Only through therapy eventually did I realize, hold on a second, this is the real issue that’s affected me more than anything and I came out with it. Suddenly it was like a jigsaw puzzle, it was the last piece missing. It sort of fell into place. That’s when I truly – it’s like two or three years ago, truly felt I was healed because I have now actually to myself found that missing piece, but it was so deeply embedded in my subconscious I didn’t even know it was there.

Chris Williams:

Great. Great advice. So, being open and honest with someone you can trust. That is a wonderful, wonderful step. Well Trevor, what a privilege to talk to you. Super fun. If you’re listening, you need to be able to see this guy. He looks like Bono and he’s just super cool and looks like you’re enjoying life again. I’m thrilled to talk to you. Thanks for sharing all of your secrets with the world in your books and I honestly look forward to seeing the next book come out. So, Twitter, Facebook, everything else?

Trevor Kleinhans:

I’m on all of them. I’m on Twitter, I’m @SecretsMakeUSic, but the ‘you’ is not you it’s the letter U and the sick does not have the K on the end because I couldn’t fit in the handle. So it’s secrets make you sick with the U and S-I-C. Then on Facebook, my Facebook page is Secrets Make You Sick as you would spell it. I have a website which is www.secretsmakeyousick.com and if anybody wants to email me, they are welcome to as well. I’m info@secretsmakeyousick.com and I get many emails and people wanting something, I just say something that will help or whatever, I don’t mind.

Chris Williams:

Awesome. That’s secretsmakeyousick.co.za?

Trevor Kleinhans:

Correct. (At time of recording this was wrong it is actually info@secretsmakeyousick.com)

Chris Williams:

Got it. Trevor, you’re just awesome to talk to and I know so many people will reach out. I thank you for being honest and honesty really does promote health. It really does.

Trevor Kleinhans:

It’s been an absolute pleasure and again, I will say this, it just needs to help one person and you’ve done your job and I’ve done my job. It’s been awesome talking to you and I’m just so glad my books are reaching all corners of the world or my story is, I should say. It’s fantastic to know.

Chris Williams:

I think we’re about as far apart. I think if you put a line straight through the globe right now, I think we’re polar opposites literally right now. So, man your book is as far away as it can get and it’s doing its job. Thank you.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Chris, thanks very much. Ciao.

Chris Williams:

Have a good one. Bye.

Trevor Kleinhans:

You too. Bye.

You’ve just listened to I Share Hope. If you’re ready to make a change, head to our website at isharehope.com and claim your free copy of the Top Ten Actions of Hope from World Leaders to use hope in your own life. Thanks for listening and we’ll talk to you next time.

Chris Williams:

So, you’re living in South Africa, you’re at a half a billion dollar (Rand not Dollar) company with an enormous amount of responsibility, you walk into the board room, they really do accept you, but what happens next? I mean are they saying, great, but we’re docking your pay because the big question for everybody is, yes I mean I’ve got things to do in supporting the lifestyle and everything’s going to change.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Sure, what they did was they took all financial responsibilities away from me for six months. I wasn’t able to be a signatory on any payments of any sort. That was quite understandable. We all know morally where we stand and I knew I would never stoop to the level of stealing, but they don’t know that. People around you for the first time are hearing of a drug like that. They don’t know. So, I quite understand why they did that and for six months they removed those powers away from me and I was honest. I even used to tell – my operations director was a partner of mine in the business. I used to say to him this is how I’m planning my next relapse or lapse…Sorry that’s my dog getting irritated…..

Chris Williams:

Are they in the room with you? Are they there with you? Let’s see them come on.

Trevor Kleinhans:

This is the one. He’s real adorable.

Chris Williams:

Okay, who is this one?

Trevor Kleinhans:

This is Jasper and he is 11 years old.

Chris Williams:

Jasper and 11.

Trevor Kleinhans:

He loves blankets. He will always be under a blanket and he’s moaning now because his blanket has fallen out of his bed and he wants me to go put it on to him.

Chris Williams:

That’s great man.

Trevor Kleinhans:

That’s the one. So I’m going to quickly put it on otherwise he’s going to continue bugging me. Lucky you can edit this.

Chris Williams:

No, this is great. I love it. Jasper sounds fantastic.

Trevor Kleinhans:

This is the one, Jessie, the oldest one, she’s 15 and she’s a little lady and she’s the little one whose face was what saved me….

Chris Williams:

She’s a sweetheart. Oh my goodness. If you’re listening to this, just the prettiest blonde face and dark eyes and just gorgeous little Jack Russell and what’s her name again?

Trevor Kleinhans:

She’s Jessie.

Chris Williams:

Jessie. What a great bunch you have there.

Trevor Kleinhans:

They are in my book and obviously they’re still here and she’s still healthy. She’s a good few years to go–

Chris Williams:

They both look great. So, the company took care of you well and it sounds like they made some wise decisions to protect obviously the horror stories we hear about folks who are going through hard times like that, but they stood by you.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Absolutely. Absolutely and you know, I had a very bad – my psychologist classified it as you’ve got addiction, you have relapses and you have lapses. The way she made me differentiate was because there was a point where I was lapsing. Three months after I came out of rehab, my very closest friend at the time who took his life savings when I got out of rehab, came to my door, knocked on my door and said, you need this. I had spent (trying to use the exchange rate now), but about $120,000 in 10 months. I was spending $1000 a day at the end of my addiction. I was at rock-bottom financially and everything. Anyway, I got out of rehab and he came to me and said he took his life savings, which was a lot of money at the time to him and obviously to me and said to me you need it more than I do. Whenever you can pay it back, pay it back. Three months later, he was killed tragically in a car accident and I still hadn’t revealed my HIV status and he was my closest friend. I had lots of turmoil, internal turmoil and I immediately resorted back to crack cocaine. I went into a very bad relapse for two months.

Those are the people, they trust you and believe you, they give you the money. My parents, they stood by me. They have financially put money into it, they moved into my house with me to protect themselves and me. I had a huge support from those very close friends of mine and still to this day, they know when I’m vulnerable. I know I always say this, for an addict, your most vulnerable times are when you’re at your highest or when you’re at your lowest. You can be extremely happy and really excited about something, something you planned, maybe an overseas trip on a holiday and your adrenalins going, everything is going, it sort of brings back that euphoria in the world when you were on drugs. That’s when you’re vulnerable. Obviously, when you’re at your bottom, you use it to hide your feelings. So, addicts I always say, you need to keep your emotions on a stagnant line. You can’t let them peak and drop and peak. Try and keep your emotions. The minute you know you’re peaking or you’re going down, you need to be fully aware and red flag yourself that you could be up for a lapse or relapse or something. I’m very aware of that nowadays myself, with myself. I’m very in-tune with my psychological self.

Chris Williams:

You’re going to pop the earbuds in and rock out to some music to get yourself feeling a little better out on a walk or run or something, what are you going to listen to? Favorite artist, favorite song?

Trevor Kleinhans:

My favorite artist is – I have two. It’s Paul van Dyk. He is really, really cool. He just brings back so many great memories although some of them relate to a bad part of my life, but I just have it associated with good times. He’s one of them and if I’m really going back and showing my age, Blondie.

Chris Williams:

Really? That’s awesome. It’s not showing your age, what are you talking about?

Trevor Kleinhans:

Sure. That was the first album I ever bought when I was a kid. I saved up and bought a Blondie album and it’s remained a favorite of mine ever since.

Chris Williams:

That’s great. So one of those two, give me a favorite song.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Time of Our Lives, Paul van Dyke

Chris Williams:

Okay. I’ll look it up.

Trevor Kleinhans:

Yes do. It’s a beautiful song.

Chris Williams:

That’s fantastic.

About Chris

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